Now that is Fighting Talk!

It is a mild and slightly damp Saturday morning at the beginning of October, 2003. I’m in my car negotiating the tramlines that run along the streets of Amsterdam while touring neighbourhoods in the search for somewhere permanent to live following my return from a two-year sojourn in California. Being the typical Brit abroad, I’m listening to the BBC on the radio, but given the trams’ overhead power lines interfering with reception, the best I can hear is a very crackly 5 Live on AM. 

Through the signal that fades in and out, I realise that I’m listening to the rat-a-tat-tat schtick of Johnny Vaughan, the former Big Breakfast co-host, who appears to be presenting some sort of sports quiz. The panelists are footballer Stan Collymore, the now ubiquitous comedian/actor/game show host Bradley Walsh (who is also an ex-professional footballer), sports writer Will Buckley, and Canadian DJ and sports nut Greg Brady, dialing in from Toronto. From what I can tell through the electrical interference, it’s a high-bantz experience.

It transpires that I’m listening to a brand new show called Fighting Talk, which zips along breathlessly under Vaughan as I try to remember the protocols of Amsterdam driving (basically, don’t, but if you do, give cyclists priority, then pedestrians, and then, if you’re lucky, you). The show ends with a win for Collymore before Vaughan hands over to 5 Live’s afternoon sports anchor and I go about my business of apartment hunting. 

20 years and four permanent hosts on, FT remains a weekend fixture (or, in my case, the Monday morning commute as I catch up with the podcast version) for the duration of any football season when it is on. Its premise is punditry, but not the monotone of Match Of The Day analysis. Instead it is a combination of knowledge and more subjective, often provocative and invariably damn funny opinion, triggered by left-field questions that sometimes only have a passing connection to sport (sample: “Sports people as biscuits”.

Points are awarded - somewhat arbitrarily it seems - for answers and it doesn’t make any difference whether the recipient is a Sport Billy with a Panini sticker book’s worth of trivia in their head, or a professional comedian possessing the sharpness of wit that comes from surviving the comedy club bearpits. And unlike, say, the occasionally po-faced A Question Of Sport, whose sports personalities are invariably anything but, FT works around the absurdities of competitive endeavour. Sport is merely a vessel for the ever-changing panel drawn mostly from sport, broadcasting and the comedy circuit to be quizzed on.

Greg Brady

“So much of sports talk is not interesting,” says Greg Brady, a regular on every FT season since 2003. “With Fighting Talk, though, you get pinned down into actually having an opinion.” Two US radio shows, Pardon The Interruption and Round The Horn provided something of the show’s template when producer Simon Crosse - who’d known Greg for a few years - invited him to be on the very first show. “In 2003, living in Detroit, I sort of knew the format, but radio hadn’t really done the arguing-in-a-pub thing, where you’re rewarded with points. Simon thought there had never been anything like it on UK radio – punditry then wasn’t very pointed.” 

“Everyone on it takes it very seriously,” Greg adds. “No one shows up unprepared. We do know the questions in advance, but not the answers, and it’s not scripted. We’re often surprised with what the other panelists have to say, and that makes for a more entertaining and unpredictable show. Knowing everyone’s answers in advance wouldn’t be the right thing to do. The show should get a lot of credit for the way it has evolved as topics in society have evolved. There are things from 20 years ago we wouldn’t cover now.”

What has kept FT fresh for the last 20 years has been the combinations of panelists, some of whom can be considered regulars (Brady says he’ll do five or six shows in any season) while others have come and gone as other work commitments have permitted. One early fixture was Tom Watt, better known as Lofty in EastEnders, who regularly demonstrated a propensity for being a proper football Statto. The Fast Show’s Simon Day has been another, along with sports journalists like Steve Bunce, Des Kelly and Martin Kelner, athletes Kath Merry and Gail Emms, and comedians like Tom Davis, Neil Delamere, Elis James, Eddie Kadi, Mark Watson and Henning Wehn. 

FT has created a legend out of football manager Phil Brown, coined a catchphrase in Bob Mills’ “I didn’t come here for a lesson on communism!”, and made the final round of ‘Defend The Indefensible’ (DTI as FTers know it) a source of controversy every bit as sour as any VAR decision. It has championed women with all-female panels, and has its own self-styled First Lady, sports presenter Eleanor Oldroyd. It’s topical, but doesn’t try to be Mock The Week/Have I Got News For You topical, even with the wild card of the ‘AOB’ round. And you don't have to be a Top Trumps-collecting obsessive to get the sporting references.

“You won’t hear the same four people every week,” points out Greg. “At the beginning it would have taken a little time to establish its rhythm – ‘Have we got the right mix?’ ‘Have we got people who know their stuff, can talk about their sport, about other sports, and if they’re not from the sporting world, contribute as entertainingly as possible?’” Over time, he says, the panels have broadened out, but there remains a cadre of panelists who’ve returned regularly, simply because they enjoy it. “The only reason panelists give up FT is when they have other things in their career to take up their time,” Greg adds.

That sort of longevity - and the support of a hardcore fanbase (who are also members of an enthusiastically-engaged Facebook group), is down to the chemistry woven by producers Crosse, Mike Holt and Charlie Copsey. “The balance of guests is usually really good,” says another FT veteran, comedian, author and hotelier Ian Moore, now in his 14th year on the show. “That’s down to the three of them - Simon, Mike and Charlie,” he adds, pointing out that they get the best out of the competitive mix of comedy and sporting professionals, each with their own knowledge, preparation and style of banter.

Former Fighting Talk host Colin Murray with producers Simon Crosse and Charlie Copsey
Picture: BBC/Facebook

For Greg Brady, interacting with the panel presents an interesting challenge: with a few exceptions of when he is London, for most editions of FT he dials at six in the morning from Toronto, where he presents the breakfast show on the city’s Global News Radio 640 station. “A Fighting Talk for me will start at 6am Eastern Time, which being a Saturday means it will have been the sixth day in a row of being up at that time.” But that’s not the greatest hurdle - when he dials in, he’s up against a host and three other panelists he can’t see. “It’s the ultimate blind date, sparring over who is the most promising golfer on the Ryder Cup Team, or a Robbie Williams song as a car – a typical Fighting Talk curve.” He wouldn’t have it any other way, however. “Over here [in North America], talk shows are like arranged marriages, but with Fighting Talk there is so much freedom to go with the flow of the fun or opinion. The mix of the people you get with FT is what makes it.”

Colin Murray in the FT driving seat
Picture: BBC/Facebook

Johnny Vaughan cast the dye in his single season as FT’s inaugural presenter, bringing the gently laddish charm that made The Big Breakfast required viewing in the 1990s. He was followed by Christian O’Connell, then Colin Murray in his first stint, Josh Widdicombe and Georgie Thompson alternating, and then Murray again for a second run between 2016 and this summer, and the end of the 22-23 football season. Guest presenters over the last 20 years have included Sir Terry Wogan, World Of Sport legend Dickie Davies, Jimmy Tarbuck, football commentator Jonathan Pearce and comedian Justin Moorhouse (who won the 2014 season as a panelist). 

For the start of its 21st year tomorrow, the show has a new host: 5 Live breakfast presenter Rick Edwards who, he says, has been a huge fan of FT since that first season with Vaughan at the helm, a fact, he says, “does age me.” Having begun his career as a stand-up, Edwards should be a snappy host, though as a former panelist, he knows the pitfalls. “Over the years my performance as a guest has been patchy, and I am really looking forward to bringing that inconsistency to the host’s chair. I can already feel the power going to my head. The bosses will regret giving me the keys to that sound effects box.”

Although he won't be on the first show of the new season, Greg Brady is looking forward to an early opportunity to be on FT with Edwards. “It might take a couple of episodes to get in tune with the ad-libs, the mockery and the opinion, but he’ll get there. It’s a little like the Rolling Stones saying that it’s only rock and roll – you’re born to be wrong a lot of the time in sport, so Rick will have to balance the possession time, who is the funniest – even if they’re not obviously funny people – who has the best knowledge, what would make good radio, what will draw out the punditry.”

Rick Edwards
Picture: BBC

Johnny Vaughan, whose production company World’s End makes the show for 5 Live, said: “The Fighting Talk team are thrilled to have Rick at the helm for the next part of the journey. Over the years we have been so lucky that each host has brought with them their own unique style, passion and humour and that is what has helped make Fighting Talk Britain’s longest running, favourite sporting entertainment show. We are delighted that Rick is now part of a glorious Saturday tradition!”

Fighting Talk returns to BBC 5 Live at 11am on Saturday 2 September. An extended podcast version will be available via BBC Sounds

Sarri seems to be the hardest word - part 3

Time's up?

Let me get this out there from the start: there is no shame losing to this particular Manchester City team. I might even claim it’s a badge of honour. But going into yesterday’s game at the Etihad, I wasn’t expecting much, as a Chelsea fan. Not that I don’t have any faith in Chelsea, even given their recent run of away results, but Pep Guardiola is currently custodian of a team that will punish anyone with elan. That doesn’t make them infallible, as they found at home to Crystal Palace before Christmas, but their results against opposition, big and small, have shown a propensity for telephone number scorelines. Which should have put Chelsea on their guard before the abject capitulation at the Etihad.

Before 4 o'clock yesterday I wasn’t even that concerned that I’d be spending the first half listening to radio commentary of City-Chelsea while driving home on the M25. I just didn’t expect to be 4-0 down by the 24th minute. At that point I came close to petulantly switching the radio off, but even then Dion Dublin, BBC 5 Live’s co-commentator with John Murray, was still of the opinion that Chelsea might be able to dam the flow of City goals and restore some pride. I was less positive: scorelines like that rarely get turned around, if ever, and if they do, you wouldn’t get this Manchester City team folding up and switching off. As they showed against Burton Albion, they are decidedly ruthless when on a killing spree. And thus they proved. 6-0.

So, hats off City, I knew you’d beat us. I just didn’t know how painfully you’d do it. Which brings me to Chelsea and Maurizio Sarri’s future. There’s an interesting comparison to make here between the two managers on the touchline yesterday at the Etihad: Guardiola has been given the time, space and resources to create this squad. Chelsea won the Premier League title in Pep’s first season at City, implausibly accelerating away from the chasing pack by Antonio Conte’s tactical switch to a wingback system that caught everyone off their guard. Meanwhile, Guardiola was rebuilding. Down the M64 at Liverpool, Jurgen Klopp was in the midst of doing much the same. Between them, they’ve had two and four years, respectively, to get their teams to where they are now. Will Sarri be afforded the same latitude?

It’s unlikely. Chelsea’s philosophy in the Abramovich era has been consistently short-termist, even if it looked like a slight change of strategy had been adopted with Sarri. If Chelsea would only come out and say that’s how they do it, we’d all accept it. Only the most naive manager would join the club in the expectation of seeing out their career there which, I suppose, is fine. The chances of another Alex Ferguson or Arsene Wenger putting in double-digit tenures at a Premier League club (or, indeed, anywhere else) are now unlikely, anyway. Again, fine, but in the case of Chelsea, there has been a distinct lag between head coach turnover and squad evolution. The elephant still in the room after yesterday’s horror show in Manchester is that the squad Sarri is playing with, or at least trying to convert to his philosophy, is still rooted in the Mourinho Mark II and Conte group of players. Change seems to be a problem for them. So yesterday’s game, plus the recent pounding from Bournemouth, should be attributed to a combination of Sarri’s unbending view that his possession-based system is the one and only, and that the players can switch off just when they need to dig in and fight. Much is said about Sarri’s lack of a Plan B, and when, yet again, you see like-for-like substitutions being made (though at least Kovačić on for Berkeley came in the 54th minute, rather than the usual 72nd…), and nothing changing in the fundamentals, you wonder if the Italian’s rigid adherence to Plan A will ever shift. Some might even admire his obstinacy, but he’s now starting to look like King Canute.

Sarri’s appointment last July was always going to be a gift to headline writers, which is why this is the third time I've blogged about Chelsea and used the generous pun you see at the top of this page (and thanks, too, to Elton John). Yep, I know it’s lazy, but the Italian is a gift that keeps on giving. His protracted appointment - delayed by Napoli, somewhat childishly, stalling his release while they onboarded former Chelsea boss Carlo Ancelotti as his replacement - was made just three weeks before the Blues’ first competitive game of the season, the Community Shield, which they lost 2-0 to Manchester City. At the time (and since) Sarri was cut some slack, the line being that it takes time to build a team, to get them to adopt a philosophy. Sarri was appointed largely because of the attractive football he’d instilled in Napoli, which enabled them to keep pace with runaway Serie A leaders Juventus. Six months on, it’s patently clear that what worked at Napoli is not working at Chelsea, what may have fitted the pace of Serie A is not fitting the Premier League.

What is most troubling is that Sarri is starting to exhibit the same truculence that Conte adopted, and that didn’t fair well for the previous Italian in charge at Chelsea. Though not as obvious as Conte became, Sarri’s current demeanour is not the kind that Mr. Abramovich and his acolytes appreciate. But before the inevitable P45 is dispatched Sarri’s way, I seriously hope that Abramovich, his de facto chief executive, Marina Granovskaia, chairman Bruce Buck and the other members of the club’s football board, David Barnard, Guy Laurence and Eugene Tenenbaum, take a good long look at the state of the team. Until yesterday, Chelsea had maintained a top four position in the league, which is probably all that could be expected at this stage of a new head coach's tune with this particular squad. And even when the wheels first fell off, against Spurs in November, they were lashed back on to record wins, including a 2-0 defeat of Manchester City at Stamford Bridge However, the bolts securing those wheels keep shearing. Yes, Chelsea remain in four competitions, but the topography of results that got them to this point is decidedly uneven, perilous even.

Next up will be Malm ö away in the Europa League on Thursday night, then a resurgent Manchester United next Monday in the FA Cup 5th Round, followed by Malmö at home in a second leg, with the run of immediate challenges ending with Manchester City, no less, in the League Cup final at Wembley. Big decisions, then, for the football board at Stamford Bridge. Fire Sarri now (and I wouldn’t expect club legend Gianfranco Zola to remain on the management team, either) and the club enters dangerously familiar territory: the final third of a season with honours on offer, but a caretaker in charge. Yes, that worked a couple of times with Guus Hiddink, Robbie Di Matteo even won the Champions League, and the toxic appointment of Rafa Benitez still netted Chelsea the Europa League trophy. But there’s only so many times Hiddink can be parachuted in, and you don’t see Zidane donning a hazmat suit to join Chelsea for the remaining four months of the season, unless there’s a desire by both him and the club to make it permanent. Plus, it’s just not going to happen, anyway.

However, all this is grist to the mill. Something has to change fundamentally at Chelsea. First up, is the relationship between head coach and the club’s football board. After technical director Michael Emenalo left for Monaco in November 2017, the link between the board and the club’s playing elements disappeared. Marina Granovskaia assumed all control over player acquisitions and divestments. The coach appears to become nothing more than a consultant in the recruitment process (although Sarri managed to persuade the club to bring in his trusted lieutenant Jorginho from Napoli, as well as - finally - Gonzalo Higuain on loan, another player with positive Sarri experience). But that has been all. Questions must also be asked about the state of a squad with access to so much academy talent, and yet no intention of using it. I’ll come back to Callum Hudson-Odoi in a moment.

The lack of true leadership on the pitch is the other major area of concern. Yesterday’s match in Manchester highlighted the absence of blood-and-guts at Chelsea. That was never the case when it had, at its core, leaders like John Terry, Frank Lampard, Didier Drogba and Petr Čech, a spine that would take the game by the scruff of its neck when it was needed. As much as I like César Azpilicueta, he’s no Terry, and having been one of Chelsea’s best performers over the last couple of seasons, has not looked as effective this term. That may be down to his captaincy (favoured over the unfavoured Gary Cahill), something that has a habit of diluting ability (once dubbed 'The Botham Effect" after the mullet-haired cricketer's powers wained after he was made England captain in the disastrous 1980 test series with the West Indies).

However, when there are players who need no motivation at all, Sarri doesn't use them. Principally I'm talking about Hudson-Odoi: the precocious 18-year-old may well still need to know his place, but his pace and strength are the very attributes Chelsea have lacked in recent performances. Sarri clearly isn’t sure about the teenager, and with Chelsea managing to ward off Bayern Munich in the transfer window, the club needs to reach agreement on what they do with him. It was almost painful to see the teenager yesterday, not even on the bench but in the seats behind the dugout reserved for squad members who travel but are not on the team sheet. Sarri’s treatment of Hudson-Odoi has been nothing short of scandalous. A player who wants to play, who can play, who can give the fans something to cheer about. And what did Sarri do, once Bayern Munich’s overtures had been conclusively (for now) rebuffed in January? Drop the player for the Bournemouth match on the grounds that he’d only played three days previously. Hudson-Odoi might as well start learning German now, because he’ll be out the transfer window as soon as it opens in the summer.

José Mourinho spent the last four months of his time at Chelsea playing Russian Roulette, almost literally. Then, he was sacked when Chelsea had plummeted from previous season’s league champions to 17th, just above the relegation zone. He was sacked in mid-December when it was still possible he could have turned things around. The Chelsea board didn’t see that as possible, and fielded then-technical director Michael Emenalo to tell the press about the “palpable discord” between manager and players. Today, Chelsea are only in sixth, on points. At any other club, that - and the fact they’re still battling on four fronts - would not set off any alarm bells. Chelsea, however, are not any other club. Sarri, or anyone else, should not think for one minute that Abramovich’s visa or business issues should be a distraction. The next few days - or even the next few hours - could prove to be another disrupting chapter in the recent history of Chelsea Football Club. Sarri would be the expected casualty, but if he does go, serious questions need to be asked about how Chelsea’s boom-and-bust cycle needs to come to an end.